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Reloading .303 British : Consumables

September 2, 2013, 6:18 am
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Author: Shamu
Subject: Consumables
Posted: 02 September 2013 at 1:18pm

I was at 2 stores this weekend. A "Gander Mountain" in Southern PA  & a local "d**ks Sporting Goods" in MD.
Both looked at me like I'd grown a second head when I asked if they had any .22RF ammo.
WalMart here hasn't had any I've found in the last 10~12 months.
Reloading supplies are thin on the ground as well.
 
SP primers were 5.99 a pack (100) at the Gander Mtn, so  I passed as I'm not desperate. No powder on display, almost no bullets but some B/P stuff & plenty of shotshe!!s.
 
This might be a local reactioin to the latest proposed raft of new "reasonable restrictioins" suggested by our lovely Goobernator though.
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Reloading .303 British : Cast Bullet loads

September 2, 2013, 3:24 pm
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Author: 303Guy
Subject: Cast Bullet loads
Posted: 02 September 2013 at 10:24pm

With H4198 I'd suggest a powder positioner.  A small tuft of Dacron fluffed out is all it takes.  Just enough to hold the powder against the flash hole - about 1gr.  I'd try it with 20gr and 25gr powder.  Don't underestimate the pressure being developed by 26grs.  It may be enough to distort the bullet which would kill accuracy - depends on alloy strength.

I should mention that I use H4227 with 205gr plain based bullets (paper patched).  I use wheat bran as a filler and get very good accuracy.  It's a pain to get into the case but several others have reported accuracy improvements when all else has failed.  Do you get leading in your bore?
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Reloading .303 British : Cast Bullet loads

September 2, 2013, 10:54 pm
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Author: Rastis
Subject: Cast Bullet loads
Posted: 03 September 2013 at 5:54am

G'Day,
           The projectiles are Hawksberry river hard cast and there is no sign of any leading. I am actually using ADI powder which is AR2207, but I said 4198 as I thought there would be more info out there for it. Do you have access to ADI powders in NZ? 4227 would be equivalent to AR2205. No visable sign off pressure at 26 grains. As soon as I get a chance I am going to load some more at 25 and confirm the accuracy and then run with that. Been busy planting cane so haven't had a chance to do it yet.
 
Thanks.
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Reloading .303 British : Cast Bullet loads

September 3, 2013, 12:00 pm
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Author: 303Guy
Subject: Cast Bullet loads
Posted: 03 September 2013 at 7:00pm

We do indeed have ADI powders.  I just use the Hodgdon names because most folk are familiar with them.  We also have Hodgdon powders and in a way it would make sense to use them from a lot to lot consistency point (not sure that ADI marketed powders are blended like the Hodgdon powders - that being the only possible difference).

So being hard cast you would unlikely be having bullet deformation on launch.  So it appears you have found two accuracy nodes.

I have this thing about potential double charges.  I have a system I use to catch them and so far so good.  Another powder that works well with cast is AR2208/Varget.  There is a minimum usable load but as long as the initial pressure at launch and peak pressure is low enough all should be good.

You are right about H4198.  It is probably a better choice than H4227 and there is a lot of data out there for it.  I've switched to W748 simply because I use AR2209 and AR2208 is visually indiscernible from it and it does burn at low pressures like AR2208 does.  AR2206H is another powder that would likely work well.

I think the biggest problem we have with cast in the Brit is the throat followed by bore dimensions.  Muzzle condition comes in at a close third place.

A good place to find cast bullet load data is over on http://castboolits.gunloads.com.
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Reloading .303 British : Cast Bullet loads

September 3, 2013, 1:25 pm
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Author: Rastis
Subject: Cast Bullet loads
Posted: 03 September 2013 at 8:25pm

G'Day,
          2208 would work for me as I allready use it for the jacketed loads. I just thought it would be to slow a powder for use with the cast projectiles.
 
Rastis.
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Reloading .303 British : Cast Bullet loads

September 3, 2013, 2:14 pm
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Author: 303Guy
Subject: Cast Bullet loads
Posted: 03 September 2013 at 9:14pm

Ar2208 is about just right for cast although I haven't tried it with a bullet as light as 180gr but it should work.  It might just drive it too fast but that can be fixed by using a little less then filling the case with wheat bran.  Wheat germ is similar and lighter and a heck lot easier to get into the case.  It does settle so needs to be somewhat compressed.

A great trick is to use Dacron to hold the powder then seat the bullet out as far as possible.  That way, if the bullet stays in the chamber on extracting an unfired round, the powder doesn't spill all over the place.
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Reloading .303 British : Cast Bullet loads

September 3, 2013, 2:28 pm
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Author: 303Guy
Subject: Cast Bullet loads
Posted: 03 September 2013 at 9:28pm

I've just checked and I do have a load for 180gr bullets but I made no note on how it worked.  I did enter that it was tested.  I use a test tube for testing loads but I can lo longer use it for anything that is a little noisy because of where it is.  I didn't note whether I used a positioner or filler either.  Anyway, it was 37gr AR2208 under the 180gr bullet.  That's all, no photo's of the primer or recovered bullet.

Found another interesting load; 147gr cast over 30gr 2209 with 8gr wheat bran.
Here's what I wrote about it;
"WHEAT BRAN CAPACITY 16.6GR TO TOP OF CASE NECK - CARTRIDGE LOADED WITH 30GR AR2209 PLUS 8GR WHEAT BRAN COMPRESSED TO FIT - PRESSURE APPEARS ADEQUATE FOR COMPLETE BURN"
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Reloading .303 British : Cast Bullet loads

September 3, 2013, 5:08 pm
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Author: LE Owner
Subject: Cast Bullet loads
Posted: 04 September 2013 at 12:08am

I used IMR 4198 for medium power 7.92X57 loads for an 18 inch barreled carbine.
The powder is good for shorter barrels though useable in longer barrels as well.
Its recommended for medium to medium low capacity cases, from the .22 center fires through .30-30, .303 Brit and similar size cases are about the upper limit for efficiency and loads for cases this size should be kept on the mild side.
I gave my remaining 4198 powder to a friend who had just begun reloading for a No.5 carbine. He got great results with 180 gr jacketed bullets.
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Reloading .303 British : Cast Bullet loads

September 5, 2013, 4:12 pm
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Author: 303Guy
Subject: Cast Bullet loads
Posted: 05 September 2013 at 11:12pm

I think 4198 is probably the best powder for moderate cast loads.  The problem I have with it is it occupies less than half the case volume making double charges a real possibility.  Oh, another problem with the load density is if the charge is left out altogether - and it does happen - is the bullets gets dislodged from the case and lodges in the throat.  Now if one doesn't realize what's happened - and that happens too - one can chamber a fresh round and during the cock on closing the fresh bullet can get pushed back into the case without one knowing it and that makes it a double bullet load which could be even worse than the double charge because one or both bullets could get riveted, raising pressure even further.  So I like a powder that mostly fills the case (it saved my once!)  Just thought I'd mention that.
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Reloading .303 British : Cast Bullet loads

September 5, 2013, 9:48 pm
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Author: Rastis
Subject: Cast Bullet loads
Posted: 06 September 2013 at 4:48am

G'Day ,
           I understand your concerns about a double charge but a double charge of 25 grains of 2207 would overflow the case I would think. I was happy with the accuricacy of 2207 and it was easy to shoot with little recoil and lower noise, but I can load up some 2208/varget at about 35 grains as the lower load in the ADI book is 37 grains for about 2250 F/S which would be to quick to see how it goes.
 
Thanks again.
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Reloading .303 British : Light bullets in the .303 British.

September 6, 2013, 8:02 am
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Author: Shamu
Subject: Light bullets in the .303 British.
Posted: 06 September 2013 at 3:02pm

I tried a few of the 130 Gr .311" Norma bullets at the range today.
They did feed well enough as long as I seated them way out  (3.013")  & the velocity was impressive to say the least, even with a mid-range load. 2900FPS @ 10 feet from a .303Cool with no pressure signs & mild recoil.
 
However the accuracy was bloody horrible! 2 seperate 1/2" vertical by 12" horizontal "strings"Confused I've never had such a glaring horizontal dispersion before, ever. It wasn't a rifle related issue, both my regular 150 Gr & a test with the Sierra Matchkings were nice tight circular groups. I have no way to account for the horrible spread horizontally with the 130 Gr Norma's.
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Reloading .303 British : Light bullets in the .303 British.

September 6, 2013, 10:49 am
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Author: 303Guy
Subject: Light bullets in the .303 British.
Posted: 06 September 2013 at 5:49pm

I was hoping you would say good accuracy.  What rifle was it?  Bore/throat condition? I have a brand new No4 two-groove I am thinking of trying light boolits in.  If yours was a 'new' throated rifle then I might not bother.  My ex-nephew in law has a new No4 five-groove barrel on a Lee Speed action in which he used 125gr bullets.  I never asked him how it shot.  I'll ask him now.
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Reloading .303 British : Light bullets in the .303 British.

September 6, 2013, 3:36 pm
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Author: Tony
Subject: Light bullets in the .303 British.
Posted: 06 September 2013 at 10:36pm

Possibly because you had to seat the bullets out further or maybe the rifle doesn't like the brand of bullet?
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Reloading .303 British : Light bullets in the .303 British.

September 6, 2013, 11:34 pm
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Author: Shamu
Subject: Light bullets in the .303 British.
Posted: 07 September 2013 at 6:34am

It might be that, Tony. I worked the seating depth by going to the shortest COAL that would feed reliably as I don't want a single shot with a long jump to the rifling. Seated shorter they would hang up in the feed by jamming in the magazine's front lips because of the shape of the bullet combined with its short length.
 
303 Guy: Its a No4 Mk2 1955 Faz with the 5 groove barrel. The rifle is in excellent condition, acutally new in wrap when I got it & has had less than 1,000 rounds fired. Its been well maintained as well & the bore is minty. It also shoots FB 150 Gr bullets very well, & has no problem with boat tails either.
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Reloading .303 British : Light bullets in the .303 British.

September 7, 2013, 8:16 am
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Author: daneko
Subject: Light bullets in the .303 British.
Posted: 07 September 2013 at 3:16pm

I have not taken the time to put them on paper, but my santa fe shoots the sierra 125s pretty well from my experience. blows up plastic pop bottles, filled with water ,with spectacular results.shot well in one of my number 5s also. I seated mine at 2.90 with 431/2 grains of imr 4895. need to guide them in to the chamber though.didn't chrono any but the get out there in a hury..shoot well and often,,,dane
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Reloading .303 British : Light bullets in the .303 British.

September 8, 2013, 8:09 am
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Author: 303Guy
Subject: Light bullets in the .303 British.
Posted: 08 September 2013 at 3:09pm

I heard back from my nephew in law.  He never shot groups with it but says they didn't shoot all that well.  He says he loaded for max velocity which is likely not going to produce good accuracy anyway.  Mmm .... I not sure he realizes he is using heavy walled mil spec cases in a tight chamber!  I better tell him.  I've told him too fast a light bullet is no good for pig.
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Reloading .303 British : Light bullets in the .303 British.

September 8, 2013, 10:23 pm
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Author: Shamu
Subject: Light bullets in the .303 British.
Posted: 09 September 2013 at 5:23am

I'm afraid to think how fast I could drive these. The 2900 FPS was 1/2 way between min & max load!
 
How well the bullet would behave is problematical as well. I once drove some 30 cal "30-30" bullets hard through a .308 & the bullets literally destroyed themselves on exiting the boreShocked
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Reloading .303 British : Light bullets in the .303 British.

September 9, 2013, 4:05 pm
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Author: LE Owner
Subject: Light bullets in the .303 British.
Posted: 09 September 2013 at 11:05pm

.30-30 bullets are usually softer than you'd want to drive to high velocities. On the other hand .30-30 bullets I salvaged from a water soaked box of ammo I found at a shooting spot per formed very well in both a .303 and a 7.62X54R rifle. Later I loaded up more that were salvaged from an old box of .30-30 ammo found in a run down house.
The majority of bullets used with the .30-30 bump up well in the larger diameter .303 bores.
I've heard of 125 grain bullets made for the .30-30 but haven't seen any. I suspect these are round nosed or perhaps flat nosed.
 
If you want accuracy from a ultra light bullet in a .303 British milspec bore you could try a round nose .30 carbine bullets or a jacketed .32 pistol bullet meant for one of the Magnum .32 chamberings.
These should bump up well and have more bearing surface compared to length.
Open base FMJ .30 Carbine bullets should hold together at fairly high velocities and bump up well even at lower velocities.
The Magnum length .32 pistol cartridges and .32-20 rifle cartridges use fairly soft bullets compared to high powered rifle cartridges, but are already a good fit in most any .303 bore.
 
The 125 gr .30-30 bullet should hold up to higher velocities.
With the 1:10 twist of the .303 you would not want to load a short light bullet to a very high velocity if you expect accuracy.
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Reloading .303 British : Light bullets in the .303 British.

September 9, 2013, 11:02 pm
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Author: Bear43
Subject: Light bullets in the .303 British.
Posted: 10 September 2013 at 6:02am

I'm new to the world of reloading and since I'm just getting started I'm going to ask lots of stupid questions. So, the one this time is what is the reasoning for going to such a light bullet? My dad and I have used 150 gr bullets for a long time and find they provide great accuracy and very good knockdown on any game we've tried for. I was just curious. It is interesting to read about everyone's results, and I must admit I am amazed at the velocity you were getting, Shamu.
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Reloading .303 British : Light bullets in the .303 British.

September 10, 2013, 2:01 am
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Author: Shamu
Subject: Light bullets in the .303 British.
Posted: 10 September 2013 at 9:01am

It was caused by availabilty issues. I couldn't find anything else so I decided to try the 130Gr as a short range (to 1/200yds) plinking load.
Plus I got a smokin' deal on a box of them just to sweeten the pot & I love to experiment.Geek
 
Velocities were mid range for the short, light load. I guess its a combination of less resistance to pressure, lower friction because of the short bearing surface & less inertia that lets you drive them that hard. I found velocities from 2600 (starting) to 3,100FPS (MAX)
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