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Reloading .303 British : DZ 1944 303 brass

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Author: Shamu
Subject: DZ 1944 303 brass
Posted: April 06 2015 at 5:22am

I looked in my info & can't find anything with a gold tip from any nation in .303. Yellow was a proof round. is the closest I could find. Might it be an old Remington Bronze point instead of paint?

Reloading .303 British : DZ 1944 303 brass

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Author: Pukka Bundook
Subject: DZ 1944 303 brass
Posted: April 06 2015 at 6:18am

Morning Shamu,
 
No, it's not an old sporting round. definitely painted tip.  I'll ask my daughter what colour she thinks it is, in case my description is off!
Will be back.......
Thanks for looking though!!
 
Richard.
 
Edited to say that my daughter could see traces of Red on the nose, the 'Gold" I could see was the shiny metal of the bullet jacket, much brighter than the rest of the jacket where the paint had peeled off.
Sorry for the false information, it is just a tracer!
 
Thanks for looing Shamu!
 
Richard.

Reloading .303 British : Resizing cases for my Lithgow.

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Author: Pukka Bundook
Subject: Resizing cases for my Lithgow.
Posted: April 06 2015 at 6:45am

D. Farmer,
Thanks for your reply.
Sort of in order;
I would have thought that a once fired case would not need trimming, but maybe so!
Yes, I always clean the cases before trying in chamber.
These are empty re-sized cases that will not fully chamber, no bullet in the equasion.
Concentricity tool might be hard to find around here, but again, neck shouldn't need turning after firing only one round. (I would have thought at any rate!...again though, might be wrong)
 
Shamu,
Chamber is as clean as a pin, no scratches or anything else showing. fired cases come out as smooth as silk.
Will check case too long theory, as Something is making them tight on bolt closure.
Again, this is with empty re-sized cases...no  bullet to cause the problem. 
Definitely not re-chambered. 
Any factory .303 round fits with no problems, & when fire -formed to chamber, appears exactly like it was prior to firing.    The cases fired in this rifle fit back in with no indexing required.
 
Must just add that this rifle is one of a batch that came into Canada from storage 'Down Under" maybe 20 years ago, and has only had one private owner since then.  It has a brand new looking barrel still, marked '53 that would be attached when  FTR'd in '54.
The bore is very clean and tight still, with apparently no wear after its FTR.
 
I Did wonder if the head-space is a bit tight,(bolt head) causing stiff bolt closure on these re-sized rounds. 
The bolt is Slightly tight and stiff on closing anyway,  but I put this down to being all FTR and no use afterwards.
 
Thanks for your reply too, and I will check overall length against factory brass, and with 'Prussian Blue" to see where tight.
 
Thanks again to both!
 
Richard.

Reloading .303 British : Resizing cases for my Lithgow.

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Author: DairyFarmer
Subject: Resizing cases for my Lithgow.
Posted: April 06 2015 at 7:27am

Originally posted by Pukka Bundook Pukka Bundook wrote:

I would have thought that a once fired case would not need trimming, but maybe so!
Only straight walled cases (like pistol cases) don't need trimming every reload. A case with a shoulder, and especially a shallow shoulder like 303 Brit, need to be trimmed EVERY TIME.
 
 
Quote The 303 British suffers from "droopy shoulders". Good in its day, the shallow angle was designed to help in loading and placement of the long stranded propellant "cordite", within the case. While good for factory production then, it's a real problem for the reloader today.

Any cartridge with shallow shoulders is more prone to case stretching, case wall thinning and thickening around the neck. Maximum loads fired from these cases accelerate the process.

Canadian gunsmith Ellwood Epps saw the problem and corrected it. He knew that steeply angled shoulders helped modern spherical and extruded powders burn more within the case and less up the barrel. His solution was to increase the shoulder angle to 35 degrees from 16. At the same time, he decreased the body taper by over 50 thou. The resulting improved cartridge showed a 15 % velocity enhancement over the standard 303 British when fired from the P-14.

After consulting with PO Ackley, Mr Epps reformed the cases with minimal body taper and sharply angled shoulders. Reduced body taper lessens the rearward pressure effects on the bolt and lugs (bolt thrust). Sharp shoulder angles inhibit forward brass flow, which reduces the need to trim cases as often.

Originally, the improvements were made to increase brass life, not to produce a higher velocity round. Mr Epps knew that reshaping the case into a more efficient design would yield this secondary benefit, but considered improved case life to be the most important factor.                                    
http://www.303british.com/id20.html

Reloading .303 British : Resizing cases for my Lithgow.

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Author: Pukka Bundook
Subject: Resizing cases for my Lithgow.
Posted: April 06 2015 at 7:34am

Thanks for that, DF.  I must have been lucky with my other .303's as I only had to trim once in a while.
 
Will measure & trim & see what happens.
 
Thanks!
 
Richard.

Reloading .303 British : Resizing cases for my Lithgow.

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Author: Shamu
Subject: Resizing cases for my Lithgow.
Posted: April 06 2015 at 9:08am

I've found it varies. I've actually had some cases shrink for length on first firing!Wacko The only explanation I can think of for this sis a lot of radial expansion in very loose chambers.

Wild thought. Might the die be out of spec? can you try a different die?

Reloading .303 British : Resizing cases for my Lithgow.

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Author: Pukka Bundook
Subject: Resizing cases for my Lithgow.
Posted: April 06 2015 at 4:03pm

Shamu,
 
I'll do some measuring and let you know. 
Re. the die being off;  I don't think so, as I have used it for all my .303 reloading for the last 25 years I'd think.  Not heavily used, but made up a couple of hundred rounds, that's all.
 
Will be back!

Reloading .303 British : Resizing cases for my Lithgow.

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Author: DairyFarmer
Subject: Resizing cases for my Lithgow.
Posted: April 06 2015 at 10:12pm

To check if the die or press is not aligned correctly is a simple process.
 
Resize the case but don't remove it from the press.
Turn the case a third of a turn and resize again.
Turn the case a third of a turn and resize again.
Trim the case and then try and chamber it.
 
If the case cycles perfectly then you have found the problem / solution.
 
BTW I use the same technic to seat bullets. I run them through the press 3 times. Gives a nice straight round.

Reloading .303 British : Resizing cases for my Lithgow.

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Author: Pukka Bundook
Subject: Resizing cases for my Lithgow.
Posted: April 07 2015 at 6:47am

Thanks for that, DF.
 
I will give it a try.
Re-cleaned the chamber, no troubles there. measured the cases and they appear back to original spec.  did trim a couple to try the fit, but even at 2.20 they are still tight. Mind you, some old HXP ammo is also a bit tight on closing the bolt. Maybe the rifle just needs running in a bit?
 
Will definitely try turning the cases as you suggest. thanks again,
 
R.

Reloading .303 British : Resizing cases for my Lithgow.

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Author: DairyFarmer
Subject: Resizing cases for my Lithgow.
Posted: April 07 2015 at 7:21am

Screw die in till it touches the she!! holder, then an extra 1/4 to 1/3 turn in more. This takes up any slack in the die/press/she!! holder.
 
Have you tried neck sizing, trimming and cycling cases fired from this rifle?

Reloading .303 British : Resizing cases for my Lithgow.

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Author: Pukka Bundook
Subject: Resizing cases for my Lithgow.
Posted: April 07 2015 at 7:41am

DF,
 
Will screw in die a bit more as you suggest. Just making contact at present.
 
Cases fired in the rifle will go straight back in with no indexing. 
The neck is still tight and it would appear they would hardly need neck sizing to hold a bullet well!
will trim and try the fired cases as you suggest.
Thanks for your time again DF.
 
Richard.

Reloading .303 British : Resizing cases for my Lithgow.

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Author: Shamu
Subject: Resizing cases for my Lithgow.
Posted: April 07 2015 at 8:49am

Measure the expander ball. That's what actually decides the final ID & so the OD of the neck.

Reloading .303 British : Resizing cases for my Lithgow.

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Author: Pukka Bundook
Subject: Resizing cases for my Lithgow.
Posted: April 07 2015 at 9:24pm

Shamu,
 
I think DF. has it sorted the problem for me.
 
DF,
 
It appears you hit a couple of nails on the head!
What really helped was turning in the die another 3rd of a turn after contact with she!! holder, And!...turning each case in the die 1/3rd revolution and doing this 3 times. 
I tried just the die tightened in a bit for a start, and  only one stroke re-sizing, and the odd one would fit the chamber, but some would not come close.
After giving them the 3rd rev. turns though,  they All fit the chamber now.
When I turned the cases, I didn't drag them down enough so that the expander went throught the neck 3 times, just the once.
Thank you for your help D.F.  I owe you one, and Thank You Shamu, for helping eliminate the other possibilities!!
 
All the best to you both,
Richard.

Reloading .303 British : Identify Rounds

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Author: Tony
Subject: Identify Rounds
Posted: April 27 2015 at 12:26pm

Originally posted by ikesdad ikesdad wrote:

The one that you might think is an AK round is probably a 7.62x54r.
The 6.5.....given your locale, is probably a 6.5x57 made by the German firm of RWS. The Portuguese used this one.
 
Here is a list of 303 headstamps.......


 That is definately a 7.62x54R, I reload them for the Dragunov and have boxes of them stored. The bullets mike out at 310 .5 so I use 150 grain 311, they perform beautifully.

Reloading .303 British : Identify Rounds

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Author: Shamu
Subject: Identify Rounds
Posted: April 27 2015 at 1:23pm

Daft question.
Is the bullet in this pic:


Possibly an actual  "Mark IV cartridge" The original DumDum bullet?

Reloading .303 British : Identify Rounds

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Author: mike1967
Subject: Identify Rounds
Posted: April 27 2015 at 1:46pm

Its either a MkIV or MkV, should be marked in the headstamp. Neither are the original DumDum, the original DumDum has a round tip with a tiny bit of the lead core showing, should only have an Indian headstamp also.

I have one i will post a picture of, just the house is being repainted at the moment so there is stuff in the way.

Reloading .303 British : Identify Rounds

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Author: A square 10
Subject: Identify Rounds
Posted: April 27 2015 at 8:13pm

"...Thanks.
 
I always thought cordite was rods like very thin pencil lead..."


that is what i found - im not even mildly educated in charging mediums , but the rounds i had that were cordite had the rods , i think you need to be careful with this as its nitro infused ???

Reloading .303 British : Identify Rounds

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Author: Shamu
Subject: Identify Rounds
Posted: April 28 2015 at 5:13am

Cordite looked like old brown angel hair pasta. At least in actual bullet loads. I've heard of it being chopped up to burn faster in blanks though.

Reloading .303 British : Identify Rounds

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Author: DairyFarmer
Subject: Identify Rounds
Posted: April 28 2015 at 5:31am

This was like ear wax between two cardboard discs.

Reloading .303 British : Identify Rounds

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Author: Shamu
Subject: Identify Rounds
Posted: April 28 2015 at 8:46am

It sounds like it is degraded & breaking down.
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